Lenherr von Gams SG

[leo.lenherr]

Any information on Joseph Gordan Lenherr, emigrated to Canada with his father, and settled in St Marys, Kansas, US. Looking for any records of Lenherr family.

Information so far (from US records): Joseph G Lenherr was born around 1859/60 in Switzerland to John (Johann) Lenherr and Christina Glaus. He married Susan Floresch on 14 Oct 1890 in St.Marys.

[Wolf]

Leo Lenherr sucht Angaben zu Joseph Gordon/Gordian Lenherr, um 1859/60 in der Schweiz geboren als Sohn von Johann Lenherr und Christina Glaus. Er wandert mit dem Vater nach Nordamerika aus.

Da Gams der einzige "alte" Bürgerort für Lenherr ist, war das höchst wahrscheinlich auch der Bürgerort der Familie.

[Wolf]

Leo - most likely I have found your ancestor - though according to Gams records he was baptised Gallus Joseph, not Joseph Gordon: Gallus possibly being an unusual name on your side of the Atlantic, he reversed the two names and abbreviated Gallus as middle name "G." - does this make sense?

[Quelle: Bürgerregister Gams SG, Band 1, Seite 241, Familie 494]

Lenherr Johann Fidel, born 06.11.1825, son of Christan and Katharina Wessner.
marries 26.07.1855
Glaus Maria Christina of Benken SG, born 01.03.1834.

Children: all but the youngest born in Gams
13.12.1855 Johann Fidel
04.04.1857 Maria Christina
16.10.1858 Gallus Joseph (Gallus being the eponym of both, city and canton of St.Gallen, 16.10. being the Saint's Day)
13.11.1859 Katharina
09.06.1861 Karolina
09.02.1863 Ursula Scholastika
30.09.1864 Hÿronimus
14.11.1865 Sophia
10.02.1867 Christian, died 31.01.1869
21.01.1869 Bertha
10.07.1871 Albertina (twin)
10.07.1871 Agnes (twin)
04.12.1872 Maria Barbara Idda, died 26.05.1873
21.03.1874 Joseph Christian
29.03.1879 Joseph Hieronimus, born "Neuhamburg Amerika"

The "Bürgerregister" does not give any further information on Christan Lenherr and Katharina Wessner [sorry - missed this information which didn't show up under Lenherr in the Index]: from now on church records would need to be checked (have been filmed by the Mormons).

Wer kann Angaben zu weiteren Vorfahren machen?

[leo.lenherr]

Vielen Dank für die Informationen Wolf. Ich wurde auch gefragt, über jedes Familienwappengeschichte? Das kann schwieriger zu verfolgen. Jede Hilfe wäre sehr dankbar. Mit freundlichen Grüßen, Leo.

[Wolf]

Unfortunately I cannot help - no Lenherr of Gams coat of arms in any of my sources.

[leo.lenherr]

Is it common for the Swiss at that time to have wappens?

[Wolf]

Family crests are/were quite popular - just compare with collections like
Familienwappen Schweiz
Baselbieter Familienwappen
Familienwappen Kanton Bern
Familienwappen Kanton Glarus
Familienwappen Kanton Luzern
This selection of links is not complete. Unfortunately a comparable collection for Kanton St.Gallen does not exist.

[leo.lenherr]

Is there a way to verify this one I have found that is claimed to be related to Lenherr?

[Wolf]

Oooops .... missed this one .

It claims to be for Lenherr of Gams. Source quoted is
Zur Geschichte von Gams, von Leonhard Gantenbein
In: Rheintaler Almanach auf das Jahr 1968.

One would need to check this source to find out whether this crest also applies to your line.

Now that I knew what to look for, I also found it in another publication - it dates back to Jakob Karl Lenherr, who was an "Ammann" (bailiff) in 1766. If you are a direct descendant (which means doing a bit more genealogy to prove that) you would certainly entitled to use it. On the other hand, these bourgeois crests are often just adapted by the entire "family", defined by name and place of citizenship - like Lenherr of Gams SG.

[leo.lenherr]

Would I have to obtain permission to use it? As I have traced to Gams SG?

[Wolf]

Family crests are not "legally protected" - there are just some rules.

Some crests have been given to a person by e.g. a king, and the document describes that this person and his descendants are allowed to use it - so, if you want to be honest, you have to prove that you are a direct descendant.

Other crests (and the Lenherr of Gams crest is likely to be one of them) are just based on a seal by a person in an official position, where he had to seal documents. Amman Jakob Karl Lenherr was likely such a person - unless he (or his father, ...) already had a seal, he had to make one up - and this later evolved into a family crest. As mentioned above, in such cases often the entire family in later generations, whether a direct descendant or not, adopted this crest. So - if you want to use that crest - you have good reasons to do so - much better reasons than many people using just any crest attributed to the same name, without any genealogical connection.

[leo.lenherr]

Wolf,

I found this on wikipedia, where they seem to connect my surname to feudalism.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Feudalism ... lan_system

Does this mean at one point the people with my name were somewhat large land owners?
It is also interesting because according to this other page, (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vilters-Wangs) Bernhard Lenherr is a mayor of this town.
Do you think Mr. Bernhard Lenherr has any information on the history of his name?

Very Respectfully,
Leo Lenherr

[Wolf]

I found this on wikipedia, where they seem to connect my surname to feudalism: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Feudalism ... lan_system
Does this mean at one point the people with my name were somewhat large land owners?

I would be extremely(!) careful with any such conclusions. Whilst it is quite plausible that the name Lenherr is derived from "Lehen" (fief) it is much more likely someone living on a "Lehenhof", i.e. the recipient would be attributed with such a nickname, which later evolved to a surname. The one giving the "Lehen" would be nobility or the church. For comparison - a very common name in German speaking areas is Graf (Count): whilst some connection to Counts may have led to this name, no Count would name himself just Graf - but "Graf von ....". Conclusion: likely no Graf of today is connected to any medieval Count - and I guess the same applies to Lehnherr. Sorry to disappoint you.

It is also interesting because according to this other page, (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vilters-Wangs) Bernhard Lenherr is a mayor of this town.
Do you think Mr. Bernhard Lenherr has any information on the history of his name?

As I don't know him, I really have no idea whether he is interested in this topic.

Best regards - Wolf

[DST]

... the Bürgerregister Gams Vol. 1, Folio 241, No. 494 was the source for Wolf's feedback.

This page refers to page 229. See attachment 1 (unfortunately I had to resize this picture to 25% so that it fits with the requirements of the forum).

Christian Lenherr was the illegitim child of Katharina Wessner (later married to Marx Schöb). The Bürgerregister mentions Christian Lenherr as the biological father. As Katharina Wessner was born 17 August 1803 (and she was just 22 years old when Johann Fidel was born), one might guess that the father would have had about the same age.

There is indeed another entry in the Bürgeregister fulfilling these criteria (Christian Lenherr, born 1804). See 2nd picture. The thing that speaks against this hypothesis is that no illegitim child from Christian is mentioned. The reasons for that may be that a) also his wife had an illegitim child, and b) the marriage was 8 years (i.e. a long time) after the birth of Johann Fidel.

As said, just a hypothesis. The biological father may have remained unmarried (in this case he would not show up in the Bürgerregister).

[leo.lenherr]

Thank you for your continued efforts in this matter.
As a side note, my documentation have no mention of the burial location or death of Ursla Scholastika. The other siblings of Gallus have been documented. Can anyone speak to the whereabouts of this lost sibling?

Very respectfully,
Leo Lenherr

[Jule]

Sorry its been already two years ago. If your family is from gams SG, you will be probably a relative.
I have to double check our family tree, but i am pretty sure that i saw some people with English names on it..

The family crest is a picture of two horns on a small hill. I can send it to you, if you like..

[leo.lenherr]

That would be wonderful.
I believe I may have an idea of the look but could you send to [deleted].
If you could double check your family tree and get back to me also, that would be very helpful.

[Wolf]

Please, don't list email addresses in the forum - this is only asking for spam . For this reason mail addresses are deleted whenever seen.
In this case there are two possibilities:
1) preferred: Jule could attach an image to her contribution - so others can profit as well.
2) You exchance mail addresse via PM (which is safe) and communicate via mail.

Best regards - Wolf

[Jule]

Hallo zusammen
Ich bin gerade dabei herauszufinden, ob die Vorfahren von Leo Lenherr mit mir (Judith Lenherr aus Gams) verwandt sind.
Nun habe habe ich die angegebenen Namen:
Lenherr Johann Fidel, born 06.11.1825, son of Christan and Katharina Wessner.
marries 26.07.1855
Glaus Maria Christina of Benken SG, born 01.03.1834

in unserem Stammbaum nicht finden können. Unser elektronischer Familienstammbaum ist nur bis (siehe Anhang) dokumentiert. Eventuell ist Johann Fidel ein Bruder von meinem direkten Vorfahren Franz Anton Lenherr?
Kann jemand aus der Schweiz mal im alten Einwohnerregister nachschauen?

[Bergbueb]

Hallo
Ich wärm das Thema mal wieder auf, denn ich bin mit meinem Latein etwas am Ende. Laut Familienschein ist Johann Anton Lenherr geb. 17. Juli 1807 in Gams der Sohn des Michael Anton Lenherr und der Anna Maria Scherrer.
Michael Anton wurde laut Altersangabe im Sterbeeintrag 1765 gebohren. Nur in dem Jahr gabs zwei Michael Anton Lenherr und weder im Heirats- noch im Sterbeeintrag gibts Rückschlüsse darauf, welche der beiden Elternpaare die seinigen sind... Ist hier jemand schon weiter?
Laut Sterbeeintrag vom 27.8.1820 war er "Grundrath" und etwas was ich als "Kreisgerichts...." lese.
Grüsse

https://dls.staatsarchiv.sg.ch/records/ ... er_page=19

[griffy]

Bürgerregister Band I, Folio XXXVI, Nr. 72 : Michael Anton Lenherr, ∗ 6. Okt. 1765, † 23. Juli 1839

Nach dem Eliminationsprinzip wäre der andere Michael Anton, geb. 26. Jan. 1765, der richtige.

[Bergbueb]

Hallo

Danke! Ein nächster Schritt in die richtige Richtung...
Eine Frage hätte ich noch zu diesem Taufeintrag: War das eine Zwillingsgeburt?
Die Einträge sind etwas seltsam...

Grüsse

https://dls.staatsarchiv.sg.ch/records/ ... er_page=30

[Wolf]

Das waren wohl Zwillinge: die waagerechte Linie dient dazu, die Taufpaten eindeutig zuzuordnen.

[Bergbueb]

Hallo

Kann zufällig jemand den Familiennamen der Mutter bestimmen? Es liest sich wie Toni, der wär mir aber unbekannt...

Danke und Grüsse

[Bergbueb]

Hallo
Also, es scheint tatsächlich Thöni zu sein.
Inzwischen hab ich an Kindern gefunden:
Antonius geb. 20.4.1762
Michael Antonius und
Johannes beide geb. 26.1.1765
Johannes 13.2.1766

Dann den Sterbeeintrag von Anna Maria Thöni im Krezibach vom 28.8.1767:

https://dls.staatsarchiv.sg.ch/records/ ... er_page=76

Und den Eintrag von Josephus Lenherr im Krezibach vom 15.10.1769:

https://dls.staatsarchiv.sg.ch/records/ ... er_page=78

Die Einträge sind leider sehr spährlich gehalten, das Latein machts auch nicht einfacher... Ich finde keine Angaben zu Eltern oder Alter, auch hab ich die Hochzeit nicht gefunden. Hat jemand noch einen Ansatz?

Grüsse

[griffy]

Trauung 11. Feb. 1760

« Renovatis sponsalibus coram parocho et testibus Joanne Schöb et Michaele Lenherr hic [fuerunt?] copulati sponsi honestus juvenis Josephus Lenherr et vidua honesta Anna Maria Thönin. | Feb. 11ma »

(11ma = undecima)

https://dls.staatsarchiv.sg.ch/records/ ... er_page=96

[Bergbueb]

Vielen Dank, die hatte ich überlesen. Nur hat es der Schreiber auch hier versäumt etwas nützliches einzutragen. Hab mal im Taufbuch geblättert und da ich keine Ahnung habe wie alt der Joseph bei seiner Heirat war, kommen da etlichste in Frage. Von 1700-1742 kanns eigentlich jeder gewesen sein.