Grob von Gretzenbach SO

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sas46
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Grob von Gretzenbach SO

Beitrag von sas46 » Do 7. Aug 2014, 18:05

My great great grandfather Joseph Grob he was born 15 Feb 1842. He came to America in 1865 on the ship, 'Energie' (arriving in New York on 03 Aug 1865). His information on the passenger list says he was 24 years old and came from Solothurn, Switzerland. I am trying to find his parents' names, etc. Is there an archive to write to or a historical society in this canton? Thank you.

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Zusammenfassung der am 31.10.2014 bekannten Daten der Linie von sas46 / Summary of data known on 31 October 2014 about the line of sas46

Peter.D
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Re: Grob family in Solothurn

Beitrag von Peter.D » Do 7. Aug 2014, 18:39

Hi, you should first of all know in which parish Joseph was born. While Solothurn is a city and a parish, it also stands for the whole canton with many parishes.
Where did you find his exact date of birth or baptism? The ship manifests were usually very high level at that time.

Peter

Wolf
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Re: Grob family in Solothurn

Beitrag von Wolf » Do 7. Aug 2014, 19:22

Peter.D hat geschrieben:While Solothurn is a city and a parish, it also stands for the whole canton with many parishes.
There are quite a few cantons (=states) where the name of the canton and of the capital city is identical - including e.g. St.Gallen, which is my area of expertise. My experience with enquiries from overseas is, that more often than not the name implies the canton.
Now - if you check the Register of Swiss Surnames you'll find two communities in canton Solothurn where Grob have held citizenship before 1865 (when your ancestor emigrated): Gretzenbach and Winzau. Whilst it cannot be guaranteed that your ancestors actually lived in one of these two, these are certainly the places to start your research (in the absence of other information).

Where should you ask? Well - here, of course :) ... with some luck someone researching this family will spot your question, but don't be disappointed if you don't get a response.

There is no genealogical society just for Solothurn - you best contact the Basel Society.

Don't forget: should you get additional information, no matter where from, post it here: the more detailed or further back your information is, the better are your chances to get a response from the forum.

BTW - where did you get his exact DoB from?
Wolf Seelentag, St.Gallen

sas46
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Re: Grob im Kanton Solothurn

Beitrag von sas46 » Sa 9. Aug 2014, 21:01

I am so pleased to get information from the people in this group; thank you!
I got Joseph's date of birth (15 Feb 1842) from his obituary and death certificate. The year of his birth (1842) was noted the same on various census records and on his gravestone.

A few years ago I tried to find his marriage record as his obituary also indicates he was married in Detroit, MI. The courthouse didn't have a record of it because at that time the certificates were not mandatory. I think that early in years, the certificate would not tell much information. It was 1865 or 1866 when they married (based on census records and obituary information). I must contact churches too, but I have no idea where they lived in Detroit. I do know they were Catholic.

Once they were married, they then moved to Freeport, Illinois and I have many records from that location but nothing that indicates what village/city he was born in, nor his parents names.

The search continues with your help which is most appreciated. I will certainly keep you posted on my progress.

His wife Elizabeth Marti Grob was born 3 Sep 1837 in Pfaffnau, Luzern, Switzerland. I have her parent's names. I don't know if she had siblings. By the time she was married about 1865/66 she was in Detroit, MI and I assume with her parents. I am looking for her immigration information but first things first!

thank you again for your interest and help,
Susan

sas46
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Re: Grob im Kanton Solothurn

Beitrag von sas46 » Sa 9. Aug 2014, 21:03

I am wondering if it is ok to post his obituary and photograph on this board?

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Re: Grob im Kanton Solothurn

Beitrag von Wolf » Sa 9. Aug 2014, 21:50

sas46 hat geschrieben:I am wondering if it is ok to post his obituary and photograph on this board?
Of course, it is: maximum file size is 1 MB - but usually much smaller sizes are sufficient; make sure to get a reasonalble compromise between readability and file size.
sas46 hat geschrieben:I got Joseph's date of birth (15 Feb 1842) from his obituary and death certificate.
OK - so that's why you don't know his parents' names - which doesn't help.

In canton Solothurn, Grob have been citizens since before 1800 in Gretzenbach and Winznau only - so there's where you should start your research. As he emigrated before 1876, I am not sure if the Civil Registration Office will have any info on him - but should be worth a try. Zivilstandsamt Olten-Gösgen is responsible for both communities: ask them if they can identify the emigrant in their register; give as much info as you have - the easier it is, the better your chances to get a response!

Come back to the forum with their response.
Wolf Seelentag, St.Gallen

sas46
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Re: Grob im Kanton Solothurn

Beitrag von sas46 » Sa 9. Aug 2014, 21:58

These are the photograph and obituary of Joseph Grob, husband of Elizabeth Marti. The latter was found in Freeport Daily News, Freeport, Illinois, 4 December 1902.
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Re: Grob im Kanton Solothurn

Beitrag von Wolf » Sa 9. Aug 2014, 22:04

sas46 hat geschrieben:This is the obituary of Joseph Grob.
It states he was born in Germany - looks like speaking German implied to come from Germany ;). I assume your information that he actually was born in (the canton of?) Solothurn is proven.
Wolf Seelentag, St.Gallen

sas46
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Re: Grob im Kanton Solothurn

Beitrag von sas46 » Sa 9. Aug 2014, 22:14

I only know Solothurn as a possibility as stated on the passenger list and census records. I guess the information is only as reliable as the source! Let's hope it is correct. I will certainly post what I hear. So often it was said they were German because as you suggest, they spoke German therefore they must be German and not Swiss or Austrians etc. My grandmother came from Austria and her records all say she was German and most assuredly was not!! :)

Peter.D
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Re: Grob im Kanton Solothurn

Beitrag von Peter.D » So 10. Aug 2014, 08:05

Hi Susan,

As already indicated by Wolf, there are two communities in the canton of Solothurn in which the Grob families had the burghership before 1800 and still in 1962: Gretzenbach and Winznau. While it is not sure that Joseph Grob was born there, it is certainly worthwhile to check the microfilms of the parishes, which are available in an LDS center. Winznau, however, was part of the parish of Obergösgen at that time. Thus, you would have to check only two films.

Peter

sas46
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Re: Grob im Kanton Solothurn

Beitrag von sas46 » Mo 22. Sep 2014, 22:28

I have had some fine assistance in the archives of Solothurn and am led to believe that Joseph (Josef) Grob was certainly born in 1842 and all the information I have about him is thus far correct. I have ordered the film for Gretzenbach, Switzerland through our local history center and await to find out what I can! Thank you for suggesting I write there. I had ordered and viewed the film from Winzau to begin with. But ofcourse now I understand why I did not find Joseph there! I will let you know what I find next! Thank you once again. Susan

sas46
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Re: Grob im Kanton Solothurn

Beitrag von sas46 » Fr 3. Okt 2014, 00:42

As a result of this group advice, I ordered microfilm that includes Gretzenbach in Canton Solothurn. I am very happy! I found the record for the birth of Joseph/Josef Grob born in 1842. This is my great great grandfather. I have scanned in two parts the record I found that I believe is his. Can anyone verify this (last entry on the scan) is Josef Grob whose parents are Josef Grob and Barbara Remel/Ramel? Thank you once again for your help.
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Re: Grob von Gretzenbach SO

Beitrag von Wolf » Fr 3. Okt 2014, 19:30

Josef was born 15 Hornung (February) 1842, and baptised 16 Hornung.
Father: Urs Josef Grob aus der Weid, Weber [weaver, living in Weid]
Mother: Barbara Ramel aus der Weid [Ramel have been citizens of Gretzenbach since before 1800]
Grandfather (father's side): Johan Jakob [Grob]
Godparents: Josef Hagmann & Marianne Schenker, beyde [both] aus der Weid
Wolf Seelentag, St.Gallen

sas46
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Re: Grob von Gretzenbach SO

Beitrag von sas46 » Fr 3. Okt 2014, 21:17

Thank you for posting the full scan. Our history center and my scanner at home does not have this capability. Thank you also for the complete transcribing of the record. As time allows I would like to see on the microfilm if there are siblings recorded. If it is of interest, I can also copy and scan to you. Susan

The microfilm image was from film #1688055 from the Latter Day Saints Family History Center. The film includes: Duplikate: Geburten, Tote, Heiraten 1836-1854 Statistik 1836-1845 Auswärtige Heiraten, Geburten, Tote 1845 Geburten, Tote, Heiraten 1855-1875 Statistik 1856-1865 Auswärtige Heiraten, Geburten, Tote 1855-1875

Wolf
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Re: Grob von Gretzenbach SO

Beitrag von Wolf » Fr 3. Okt 2014, 21:25

sas46 hat geschrieben:As time allows I would like to see on the microfilm if there are siblings recorded.
... and don't forget the wedding of the parents - which may not be on this film (if before 1836).
Wolf Seelentag, St.Gallen

sas46
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Re: Grob von Gretzenbach SO

Beitrag von sas46 » Fr 3. Okt 2014, 21:34

Yes, I believe marriages are recorded on this film. Thank you. I have a few other films related to Solothurn as well.
Zuletzt geändert von sas46 am Fr 3. Okt 2014, 22:25, insgesamt 1-mal geändert.

sas46
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Re: Grob von Gretzenbach SO

Beitrag von sas46 » Fr 3. Okt 2014, 21:40

You can see online the census record showing information regarding Joseph Grob and wife Elizabeth family. This is the 1900 census record for Freeport, Stephenson County, Illinois. Joseph and Elizabeth's daughter Anna is my great grandmother. I knew her for many years.

https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/MSHP-NB4

Wolf
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Re: Grob von Gretzenbach SO

Beitrag von Wolf » So 5. Okt 2014, 14:06

Peter [Grob] was born 14 August 1838, and baptised the same day.
Father: Urs Josef Grob aus der Weid, Weber [weaver, living in Weid]
Mother: Barbara Ramel aus der Weid [Ramel have been citizens of Gretzenbach since before 1800]
Grandfather (father's side): Johan Jakob [Grob]
Godparents: Peter Ramel & Katharina Ramel, beyde [both] aus der Weid
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lilo
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Re: Grob von Gretzenbach SO

Beitrag von lilo » Mo 6. Okt 2014, 06:36

How and where can I order a microfilm for Gretzenbach/SO like it was done for Grob in Gretzenbach? Thanks, lilo

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Re: Grob von Gretzenbach SO

Beitrag von Wolf » Mo 6. Okt 2014, 09:05

Many Swiss church records (like Gretzenbach) have been filmed by the The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (Mormons). They can only be viewed in their History Centres, and will usually have to be ordered first (will take a few weeks to arrive). There is a small fee (which, I'm sure, doesn't even cover the cost of copying the original film, and sending it).

A few records (like from canton Bern) may even be viewed online - at the Centres, or if you are a member of the church.

If you don't know where your nearest Centre is, check http://familysearch.org/.
Wolf Seelentag, St.Gallen

sas46
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Re: Grob von Gretzenbach SO

Beitrag von sas46 » Do 9. Okt 2014, 21:19

lilo hat geschrieben:How and where can I order a microfilm ...
The Latter Day Saints have a wonderful system for obtaining microfilms to view and the records are vast in number and type. My advice is that once you know what country, state, village etc. you need records for, read the review of the microfilms available for that area very carefully. Note the dates you are looking for records and the type of record you wish to find. When ordering the films online also be certain they are sending them to the correct history center as a film I recently ordered was accidentally sent to the wrong history center. The film was returned and re-issued and is now at our local center, but that delayed having them at the center for my review by several weeks.

lilo
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Re: Grob von Gretzenbach SO

Beitrag von lilo » Fr 10. Okt 2014, 04:30

Thank you to both of you for the information. I shall try my best and hope it works out. lilo

Wolf
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Peter Grob oo1864 Maria Genoveva Küpfer

Beitrag von Wolf » Fr 31. Okt 2014, 19:27

Heiratsregister Gretzenbach, 12 September 1864

Peter Grob aus der Weid, Posamenter (braid maker) in Grezenbach, geb. 14 August 1838
und
M(aria) Genoveva Küpfer aus der Weid, geb. 12 Februar 1836

Eltern des Mannes (bridegroom's parents)
U(rs) Joseph Grob aus der Weid in Grezenbach
und
Barbara Ramel von Grezenbach

Eltern der Frau (bride's parents)
Konrad Küpfer, Weber (weaver) aus der Weid
und
Anna Spielmann von Ober-Gösgen

Trauzeugen (witnesses)
Peter Grob, Rudolph's (son of Rudolph) aus der Weid
Theresia Küpfer aus der Weid
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Wolf Seelentag, St.Gallen

Wolf
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Linie von sas46 (Zusammenfassung)

Beitrag von Wolf » Fr 31. Okt 2014, 19:39

Zusammenfassung der bisherigen Daten der Linie von sas46
Summary of data known to date about the line of sas46

Grossvater (grandfather): Johann Jakob Grob

Eltern (parents): Urs Josef Grob oo Barbara Ramel.

Kinder (children): 2 Brüder (2 brothers):

Peter Grob, *14.08.1838, oo in Gretzenbach 12.09.1864 Maria Genoveva Küpfer, *12.02.1836

Josef Grob, *15.02.1842, emigriert >USA 1865, oo (in Detroit?) Elisabeth Marti, *Pfaffnau 03.09.1837.

Kann jemand Angaben zu den Eltern bzw. Grosseltern ergänzen?
Any additional information on the parents or grandparents is welcome.
Wolf Seelentag, St.Gallen

sas46
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Re: Grob von Gretzenbach SO

Beitrag von sas46 » Mo 10. Nov 2014, 02:48

As I had stated in my initial posting, my ancestor Joseph Grob arrived onboard the 'Engergie' in New York on August 3, 1865. I discovered through newspapers.com that the arrival of the ship was announced in the New York Times Newspaper on Thursday, August 3, 1865, page 8. It was also interesting to see the headlines and news items of that date. It seems his journey was smooth sailing! I have not been successful finding a drawing of the ship but in seeing drawings of similar ships of the same passenger size, I have come to understand the cramped space and length of the sailing and all they endured to immigrate.
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sas46
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Re: Grob von Gretzenbach SO

Beitrag von sas46 » Fr 20. Feb 2015, 16:48

My ancestor Joseph Grob left for America in 1865 having been born and raised in Gretzenbach, Solothurn, Switzerland. His parents and one brother remained in Switzerland. In the village were any directories of the residents kept that would indicate the house number/street where they lived in/or around that year? Are there any drawings of the village or any early photos of the village. The photos I have found online are modern day.

Servatius46
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Gretzenbach

Beitrag von Servatius46 » Di 27. Jun 2017, 02:05

I have had to re-register since moving and having a new email address. I thank you for allowing me to do that.
Formerly I was researching the Grob and Marti families. I never knew I would actually be visiting the villages they came from but now can say in September I will be. I am most excited! Gretzenbach is where my great great grandfather Joseph Grob was born.
His wife was Elizabeth Marti born in Pfaffnau which is Canton Luzerne. Has anyone been to those two villages? Just wondering what to expect :) and any advice for traveling that area? thank you..

Servatius46
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Re: Grob von Gretzenbach SO

Beitrag von Servatius46 » Fr 28. Jul 2017, 17:39

Joseph Grob my great great grandfather was born 15 February 1842 according to Latter Day Saints records on Familysearch.org and records at Ancestry.com plus the date came from various sources where he died in Freeport, Stephenson County, Illinois. I ordered the microfilm from LDS and found his birth/baptismal record in Weid, Gretzenbach, Switzerland. So would Weid be the village in the area of Gretzenbach?

Peter.D
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Re: Grob von Gretzenbach SO

Beitrag von Peter.D » Fr 28. Jul 2017, 18:28

Yes.

Peter

Servatius46
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Re: Grob von Gretzenbach SO

Beitrag von Servatius46 » Sa 29. Jul 2017, 23:25

Thank you. I see it on the map now. I look forward to visiting the area in September. Thank you.

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