Hugentobler im Kanton Thurgau

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DavisSchweiz2014
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Hugentobler im Kanton Thurgau

Post by DavisSchweiz2014 » Mon 26. May 2014, 21:19

While researching an ancestral Swiss name (Hugendobler and similar spellings), I found a citizenship record for Basel which stated that Abraham Hugendobler came from Thurgen. A Google search provided a few other examples of this apparent place, but I have not been able to locate it. Apparently, it is a village, but no map or geographic data base seems to include it. I also realized that it could be a spelling variant of Thurgau, but have not found anything to substantiate (or refute) that. I would appreciate any assistance. Please feel free to reply in German, or English. I can read both (but am rather uncomfortable composing my post in German). This is my first post on this forum.

Thank you

David Davis
Arlington, Virginia, USA
Last edited by Wolf on Mon 26. May 2014, 22:27, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: urspr. Titel: Thurgen



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Re: Hugentobler im Kanton Thurgau

Post by Wolf » Mon 26. May 2014, 22:26

There is no Thurgen mentioned in "Geographisches Lexikon der Schweiz" - and there are many tiny hamlets listed in this source: consequently I would exclude the possibility that there is a community of this name. Much(!) more likely is an origin in canton Thurgau, where Hugentobler (spelled with t today) have been citizens since before 1800 in
- Amlikon-Bissegg
- Braunau
- Bussnang
- Griesenberg [new = Amlikon-Bissegg]
- Kemmental
- Oppikon [new = Bussnang]
- Schönholzerswilen
- Sulgen
- Toos [new = Schönholzerswilen]
- Wigoltingen
- Wuppenau

Hugentobler gained citizesnhip of Basel as late as 20th century.

The spelling Hugendobler is today not an official spelling for a Swiss family.


Wolf Seelentag, St.Gallen

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Re: Hugentobler im Kanton Thurgau

Post by DavisSchweiz2014 » Sat 31. May 2014, 20:17

Dear Hr. Seelentag.

Thank you for your prompt and helpful reply to my post regarding “Thurgen.” While I am disappointed that you could not identify it as a place, I am not surprised as I, too, had looked in the Lexicon and elsewhere without success. My primary source was the online copy of the Basel records: "Switzerland, Basel City, Local Citizenship Requests, 1348-1798." Images. FamilySearch. http://FamilySearch.org : accessed 2013. Citing Weiss-Frei Archiv. Staatsarchiv des Kantons Basel-Stadt. The specific location for the record of interest is: https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/T ... :182936201. Several images later (no. 353), there are some additional notes regarding the entry.

Based upon my understanding of this document (found in the first several pages preceding the index), it was transcribed by one man in the early 20th century from the original record books. Though I can only assume that he was a careful scholar, fatigue alone could account for mistakes in reading the original in old German script and copying the entries in modern Roman script. As such “Thurgau” could have become “Thurgen.” I found the same location (“Thurgen”) listed for a family named Zimmerman in RootsWeb (http://wc.rootsweb.ancestry.com/cgi-bin ... style=TEXT). It is certainly possible that their source was the same Basel records and, hence, the same transcription error. The fact that they included the word “Evangelish”—and misspelled it—in a place name, suggests that the author’s knowledge of German was limited. They may have confused a church with a village.

You will note that there is also mention of an apparent place called Mullanin (umlaut omitted) in the remarks on the Hugendobler entry. I was likewise unable to locate it on maps, in Google, etc. Any thoughts on that welcome as well.

I appreciate your information on the Thurgau origins of the Hugentobler family. I was aware that the family had its origins in the northeast, perhaps in St. Gallen based upon a visit to the library in your city in the 1970s when I was working for Swissair in Zurich. My Hogendobler ancestors (my mother was Florence Eloise Hogendobler, 1904-1986) arrived in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, on the ship Osgood in 1750. Nicholaus Haugendobler, the immigrant, had come from Basel, perhaps via Darmstadt. He settled in Lancaster County, Pennsylvania, the heart of our Pennsylvania German community and culture, and had a large family. Family researchers here believe that all US Hogendoblers (however spelled) descend from him.

Again, thank you for your time and interest.

With kindest regards,

David Davis



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Re: Hugentobler im Kanton Thurgau

Post by Wolf » Sat 31. May 2014, 21:35

The rootsweb record on Zimmermann states
Birth: 30 Mar 1730 in Thurgen, Dussenhaffen Evangelish, Switzerland
I would be pretty sure, the correct spelling would be Diessenhofen in canton Thurgau. There were both denominations (evangelisch and katholisch) in Diessenhofen - baptismal records dating back to 1617 (ev) and 1613 (kath) respectively.


Wolf Seelentag, St.Gallen

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Re: Hugentobler im Kanton Thurgau

Post by Wolf » Sat 31. May 2014, 22:31

In the meantime I have checked the original record - see attachment.
Abraham Hugendobler vssem Thurgew seins handt-
werkhs ein Müller bitet vmbs burgerrecht ://: Ist
sampt der frawen angenommen.
Abraham Hugendobler from Thurgau, a miller by profession, asks to become a citizen.
He is accepted as well as his wife.

In the index "Thurgew" (Thurgaw would be more common) is transferred correctly - again in handwriting - and there it was misread as "Thurgen".
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.


Wolf Seelentag, St.Gallen

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Re: Hugentobler im Kanton Thurgau

Post by DavisSchweiz2014 » Mon 2. Jun 2014, 21:38

Dear Hr. Seelentag:

Thank you again for your help. After viewing the original record--and your transcription--I can readily see how information can become distorted given changes in language, handwriting, and perhaps even meaning. For now, however, I am content that I have a correct understanding of this particular record for Abraham Hugendobler. At this point I can't do much more with the information as I have no way to connect Abraham to Nicholaus over a century later. Abraham may have been the grandfather or great-grandfather, or he may have been only distantly related. Perhaps as more records become available online, I will learn the relationship. Until then,

Best regards,

David Davis



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Re: Hugentobler im Kanton Thurgau

Post by G.F. » Sat 7. Jun 2014, 16:12

Hello David and Wolf,

do you know these HUGENDOBEL from Altgetshausen, SUISSE, back to 1500?

http://gw.geneanet.org/leimbach?lang=de ... ugendobler

Georg



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Re: Hugentobler im Kanton Thurgau

Post by Wolf » Sat 7. Jun 2014, 17:32

Algetshausen (not Altgetshausen - this is a typo on the geneanet site) is part of Uzwil in canton St.Gallen - where Hugentobler (today's spelling) have been citizens since before 1800.

This might be an alternative, of course. Should it turn out to be the correct origin, this thread will be renamed and shifted.

Otherwise for discussions on Hugentobler of Uzwil SG a new thread should be started.

------------------
added comment: a new thread Hugentobler von Uzwil has been started in the meantime.


Wolf Seelentag, St.Gallen

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Re: Hugentobler im Kanton Thurgau

Post by DavisSchweiz2014 » Sat 7. Jun 2014, 18:35

Georg,

Thank you for the information. I did not have this information, but unfortunately as with the information I posted originally, I cannot connect these people with my ancestor Nicholaus Haugendobler who emigrated from Basel about 1750. It is highly likely that they were related, given the uncommon family name, but I am unable to make that link.

Best regards,

David Davis



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Re: Hugentobler im Kanton Thurgau

Post by Wolf » Sat 7. Jun 2014, 20:33

DavisSchweiz2014 wrote:It is highly likely that they were related, given the uncommon family name, ...
Well, the name ist not all that uncommon (in Switzerland): in addition to the 11 communities I have listed above, there are 4 communities in canton St.Gallen where Hugentobler (and many spelling variations in earlier times) have held citizenships since before 1800 ... and there might be more, where the family has become extinct in the meantime.


Wolf Seelentag, St.Gallen

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Re: Hugentobler im Kanton Thurgau

Post by DavisSchweiz2014 » Sun 8. Jun 2014, 02:45

Hr. Seelentag,

Thank you again for correcting my misunderstanding. The name is certainly not common in the United States, so I wrongly assumed that such was also the case in the homeland. Americans, of course,have a tendency to shorten and simplify family names, so there may actually be more than seems to be the case here. We know that some, but not all, families named Dobler, Hogan, etc., shortened their name from Hogendobler or a variant. My mother's line was perhaps one of the few that did not, though it too may be dying out as there are now relatively few men of the name who have, or are likely to have, children. My mother was one of 13 children (11 reached maturity), but within another 50 years there will be no males named Hogendobler descended from her parents. The name has also mostly died out in the part of Pennsylvania where Nicolaus--and most other Germanic immigrants of the colonial era--settled.

Kindest regards,

David Davis



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